what would you do if you died and went to an eternal hell

[master_g]

Hey guys, i was wondering how you would feel if u died and ended up in an eternal hell, i especially would like to hear from atheist and those who dont believe in such a place.

and i hope you ALL make it to heaven were we can all meet each other and chat in person instead of using a forum :)

[Knoctur_nal]

well..if in internal hell i be..better start makin some power friends when ur down there...right hand to the prince of darkness u say....

[master_g]

lol friends in hell is as impossible as enemies in heaven :)

[nyckeion]

that will be really sad if you dont believe it and then you get smacked down there... But i guess if you deserved it then oh wellz

[master_g]

you shouldnt think like that, its not a place u want to end up. I hope you dont end up there if that means anything to you. maybe youll have a change of heart later on in life providing you make it that far.

[Lilydream]

ahahah the hell will be really cool for who like place where is hot and warm..like me..i just have to don't forget my lotion against burn

[master_g]

hehe, your lotion will run out eventually.

[hiake]

Wow, we are talking about a taboo here. Are you implying that we should all believe in God JUST IN CASE there is a Hell? My idea of belief is absolute devotion, I cannot stand the half-believers who only want to secure their place in the promised land of heaven. They are pathetic creatures.
Sorry to burst your bubble, master_g, but my backbone is stronger than that. I'd take eternal hell in place of hypocrisy any day. I'll just have to suck it up one day at a time. I am not going to convert and be a rehabilitate just because I am condemned to eternal hell, one just have to stick to the belief come rain or shine, don't we?

The quesiton to you would be, will you still believe, if you simply cease to exist when you die, not in the promised land of heaven where angels blow the horn to welcome you? Will you doubt your God because you did not end up anywhere as the Bible has described?

[master_g]

Hey hiake, "I'll just have to suck it up one day at a time" was all i was looking for, i thinks you misunderstood my question too, it doesnt say would you believe just incase, it says what will you do if you went there :)

[master_g]

will you still believe, if you simply cease to exist, if a person ceases to exist then how would i feel doubt.

P.S. dont worry, you aint burst no bubble, i dont expect much agreement on the forums as ive learnt that most posters are atheists. but i wont give up on you guys :)

[hiake]

, if a person ceases to exist then how would i feel doubt.

P.S. dont worry, you aint burst no bubble, i dont expect much agreement on the forums as ive learnt that most posters are atheists. but i wont give up on you guys :)

Oh, you misread the scenario, or perhaps it's me being unclear, allow me to rephrase it:
The quesiton to you would be, will you still believe, if you did not end up in the promised land of heaven where angels blow the horn to welcome you? Will you doubt your God because you did not end up anywhere as the Bible has described, be it hell (not likely, since you are such a devoted believer) or heaven?
Or, what if you end up in hell because the Christian God was not the ONE TRUE GOD and you end up worshipping a "false idol" other than the TRUE GOD (some other deity than the Christian God or Jesus)?

BTW, not prescribing to an existing religious canon does not necessary mean I am an atheist. I would think I am more of a skeptic than an atheist, since I do believe there is a higher power, though he doesn't necessary be omnibenevolent, omnipresent and omnipotent.

I should totally stop, this discussion is going nowhere. Is this still a discussion anyways?

[master_g]

Ah i get you know, it would be bad for me i guess but as a christian ive drawn close enough to God to know he is real and he is God, its hard to explain unless you expierience it yourself.

sorry for saying or implying your an atheist and i do enjoy hearing your replies so i would like to think that it still a discussion.

[THF20]

Well... I would talk to the devil and sore something out with him. So I can get bk to heaven somehow.

[master_g]

lol, one misconception i hear alot about hell is the idea that satan will be ruleing in hell. currently the final hell (lake of fire) is not here yet, at the moment we have whats called hades or the place of torment which includes total absence from God. in that place satan does rule, but after judgemnt all demons, fallen angels and Satan will be thrown into the lake of fire along with those who followed after him.

the bible says hell was created for satan and his angels, not humans, but we humans tend to seek other paths besides Gods plan.

in this place Satan will be suffering far far worse than anyone in there, he wont be sitting with a pitch fork making orders. and he wont be available to make special offers with you. i know most of you aint being serious with your answers but i though ill post this extra info anyway. keep em coming.

[Lilydream]

lake of fire?

wow this is really interesting..

but..will it help to keep my skin smooth?

seriously master_g why do u always take the bible like a reference everytime?

and then if u died and fall to the hell ..it's ok because then u are sure that u wasn't at all white when u was a human..

at least if satan suffer there he can say that now he is famous on the earth..

[kdotc]

theres nothign u can do about it when u go to hell...just eternal flames and burning...
jesus is the path to heaven and eternal life... u must accept him as ur saviour =)

[Knoctur_nal]

if ur down in the deep fire...start doing some good down there to get back up to the light...

[hiake]

theres nothign u can do about it when u go to hell...just eternal flames and burning...
jesus is the path to heaven and eternal life... u must accept him as ur saviour =)

Well, yes, one can do nothing when one heads to hell face first. But I am just betting that religion is just a scam, I believe one can do good without religious affiliation. And to penalize a person for the belief (or non-believe), not for the behaviours, is simply unjust. And if the so-called God (or whatever name human gave them) is THAT shallow, it is pointless to believe.
And I think that there's no winning in arguing about the point -- since all do-good persons are following God's path, and people who follow God's path but made mistakes are just strayed -- nothing wrong will be the responsibility of God, it's always challenges and tests. What kind of highly deity is that?

[dbzsl]

i don't really believe in heaven and hell, i see death as just darkness or a possible recarnation without memories of your past life of course.

[kdotc]

Well, yes, one can do nothing when one heads to hell face first. But I am just betting that religion is just a scam, I believe one can do good without religious affiliation. And to penalize a person for the belief (or non-believe), not for the behaviours, is simply unjust. And if the so-called God (or whatever name human gave them) is THAT shallow, it is pointless to believe.
And I think that there's no winning in arguing about the point -- since all do-good persons are following God's path, and people who follow God's path but made mistakes are just strayed -- nothing wrong will be the responsibility of God, it's always challenges and tests. What kind of highly deity is that?

well faith makes a person stronger

[nyckeion]

is it really faith that makes us stronger... or is it that we think of faith and give us confidence?

[master_g]

hey Lilydream

seriously master_g why do u always take the bible like a reference everytime?

im a christian lol, thats what we do.


im also not to sure about what you was trying to say, but i think i can answer it by saying, NOBODY is good. accepting Jesus into your life and seeking forgivness for your sins is the only way. through jesus you can be made perfect in God' presence. Human effort is a wast as our history has shown.

hiake, if ur against religion so much then fine, just seek God, God alone, forget the religion part. Jesus is all you need, put it to the test and youll see. if u wish to remain a skeptic all your life then thats your choice but if you would like to know if there is a God then just ask Jesus to reveal himself to you.

kdotc, your right, faith makes us stronger.

nyckeion, not sure about what your question means but true faith in God does make you stronger.

[Lilydream]

hey Lilydream



im a christian lol, thats what we do.


im also not to sure about what you was trying to say, but i think i can answer it by saying, NOBODY is good. accepting Jesus into your life and seeking forgivness for your sins is the only way. through jesus you can be made perfect in God' presence. Human effort is a wast as our history has shown.



i guess that u was christian..but well...

And sorry i won't accept Jesus into my life because i have already my faith..and this is what is the more important...:D

to be really serious i think that the hell and the heaven is exactly the same thing..no one between these 2 things is better than another because..into this 2 world u will suffer..not like human suffer in the earth by poverty, or disease or the lack of food..but by the way that eternally u wil leave in the same world and can't discover other stuff like when u was an human...after the life everything will be boring..because do u think that u can spend all ur life to play...or to be burn?

[melroseddl1]

i would craw back on to earth and be a zombie or some sort.
if i cant do that, then i'll try to kill the devil untill he is scared of me and then point me back to heaven lol

[kdotc]

is it really faith that makes us stronger... or is it that we think of faith and give us confidence?

either way..i think everyone should have faith in them

[Yo itz Trong]

I totally agree with everything hiake said.

In my own opinion, I'm not really a religious person. But I do have a religion. I hate it when people argue to me about why should convert to christianity or catholicism, and not stay a buddhist. I like buddhism for many reasons but I'm not going to start any beef with the religious people. Why am I condemned to hell anyway? Ok...people have told me we're born sinners, they've just given me another reason to be a badass.

[fearless_fx]

i came out of my mother's uterus with guns blazing, praising satan and dissing God. I am a born sinner -cool

[master_g]

hehe, some very amusing hollywood action movie type ansewers doing the rounds.
but as for the serious stuff, God came down in the form of an earthly vessel (Jesus). he suffered for all of us and died for all of us, 3 days later he rose. Of all the holy men of the world, its only Jesus who rose and its only Jesus who cant e found in any tomb. for salvation all you have to do is believe Jesus, accept him into your life and have faith in his resurection.

how would you feel if you cut a hand off to save your family but they threw it back in your face (not the hand, but what you did for them). God himself put himself in a position to be tormented to take all our sins. yes we are borne in sin but accepting Jesus and asking forgivness for your sins is all you have to do.

as for those who follow other religions, thats totally up to you, as a christian i will never condemn you for following another religion, i wont consider you lower than anyone else but ill live in hope that you find Jesus one day, thats all i can do.

Lilydream, as youve got a religion, do u mind telling us what it is?, your 'chicken or egg' answer was the reason i thought you never believe in a god because not once was he mentioned in the creation of a chicken. but maybe i read it wrong so i apologise if i did.

for those who dont know, we all inherited adam' and eve' nature, which was a sinfull nature after they were tempted by satan.

[Lilydream]

Lilydream, as youve got a religion, do u mind telling us what it is?, your 'chicken or egg' answer was the reason i thought you never believe in a god because not once was he mentioned in the creation of a chicken. but maybe i read it wrong so i apologise if i did.


ahah this totally funny then..well to answer to ur question i'm buddhist ..and if my answer was like that about the egg and the chicken it's because that i'm a scientific too that's why the answer that i found out from religion book is not the one that i keep and prefer to use logic and science better....sometimes we have to be open mind...but i believe in god and all the things that go with...but well it's a little hard for me to explain my point of view and everything because english is not my first language... i'm french...

[Knoctur_nal]

and the religious discussion continues...

[master_g]

and the religious discussion continues...
correct me if im wrong but aint this a Philosophy & Religion forum???? the least i would expect is discussions about religion.

Lilydream, i understand what ur saying :)

[ab289]

what would i do if i end up in hell? hhmm ... i guess where and when there's a break from the torture; me and my frens will have a bbq. i know a few guys that have registered their names in hell; if there is in fact a heaven and hell.

[master_g]

i wonder what ur gonna bbq, i doubt your gona have fresh meat down there.

[Lilydream]

and the religious discussion continues...

and ppl like u keep complain.........

[dann]

^ but yo lilydream, knoc has a point. religious topics arent supposed to be discussed among a multi-religious community. theres BOUND to be religious conflicts. so knocs got a point.

3 things you dont talk about with different valued persons: politics, religion and sex.

and btw, act like a buddhist and accept other peoples beliefs. you got your religion, then follow it. no need to start holy wars in this forum.

[master_g]

lol no holy wars on this forum, no conflict and no hate. im a christian and Lilydream is buddhist but i still think he/she is a great person. same goes for everyone else regardles of their beliefe or non beliefe.

were adults, and so far there have been no bad feelings, i guess the closest thing to conflict is this sentance.
and btw, act like a buddhist and accept other peoples beliefs. you got your religion, then follow it. no need to start holy wars in this forum.

lets all be mature adults and all will be well :)

[ab289]

i wonder what ur gonna bbq, i doubt your gona have fresh meat down there.

hehe .. i'm sure there are sinful cows/chickens that will go to hell. look at the movie, Barnyard Animals.

[dann]

its not a conflict, as i am buddhist myself.

buddhism dictates that we accept all others as who they are.

if you thought that was provoking, well it was not in my intentions.

remember, i am buddhist as well, so its not meant as a conflict starter.

[master_g]

hehe, no worries, just seemed a little harsh what u said to Lilydream but i understand u never mean it in any way. and i guess it was due to my own lack of understanding not knowing the teaching of buddhist or knowing your a buddhist. :)

[Lilydream]

omg..u guys think now that i want to do a war?....

wow it's unbelievable...

i don't khnow what to say..because it wasn't my intention...i respect all of ppl point of view and i never to try to change them..i just tell what is mine and now u guys thought that i want to start a war....

well ..well ..then..next time i won't say anything...because i don't want ppl got wrong about what i trying to say...

and about the 3 thing...omg this is what i like talk the more with ppl..but well i think it's more because my education...

and thx master _g .. i think that u are someone who is great too because the way u think it's different compare to other...and u never hide it and from where come ur conviction..this is a really good thing...and i respect that

but well...i start to be really confusing..and that's why i apologize for that....

[ab289]

Isn't it ironic? as far as I can tell, all religions teaches us to love each other, peace, etc. and everywhere in this world, there are wars fought for centuries in the name of religion.

Can't ppl just live in peace?

[dann]

no worries Lilydream. i understand, ive just gone through the same misunderstanding like you just a few minutes ago.

best thing to do now, not talk about religion, cuz you all are cool people, and we dont want misunderstandings to ruin the coolness do we? ;)

[Lilydream]

Isn't it ironic? as far as I can tell, all religions teaches us to love each other, peace, etc. and everywhere in this world, there are wars fought for centuries in the name of religion.

Can't ppl just live in peace?

but does it have really peace somewhere in this earth?

i think that even in the heaven peace doesn't exist..but well..maybe i have a lack of information?..or maybe eden is the more peacefull place in this earth?

[dann]

^ but see, thats the sort of thing that fuels debate....

anyways, all im gonna say is that there is peace, and i can prove it... im just not going to say it due to the fact that i dont want to argue..

[Lilydream]

aww why not dann..it will be interestin to khnow where is the peace? because this is one of the question that i never find out a real answer myself..and i'm really interested by that..can it have a world without war? without jealous?...can a world be good at all?

[dann]

ok i wont go into details, because i have a speech i have to write for tomorrow.. and memorize it.. >_<

anyways im just going to say very few things

the peace i was talking about was not physical peace you all have in mind. rather, it is the peace with one self, or in other words, inner peace. by achieving inner peace, only then the peace in which youre talking about will happen.

example: how do religious locations get their titles as the home of peace, or etc? the leaders of those locations, whether they be christian churches, islam mosques, or buddhist temples are all at peace with themselves. they hold no grudge, thus transferring peaceful thoughts to whoever enters the religious place.

let me refer to many religious leaders. such leaders include Jesus, Prophet Mohamed, Buddha, and others. these beings are referred to as "Masters". they spread peace by purging the mind of the people from sinful thoughts. by inputing peaceful thoughts, the people will achieve a moment of inner peace in turn, promoting peace to the rest.

Within the past century, other people, such as the dalai lama, mother theresa, gandhi, are referred to as "saints". they promote the idea of peace through helping others. why is it do you think that when we travel to the highest mountains of Asia for instance, where tibetan monks reside, do we feel relaxed, peaceful, purged of sinful thoughts? it is the environment offered by those monks who learned from masters such as Buddha, that creates the peaceful environment. that is a prime example of peace.

we, in industrialization, are not able to feel that environment, due to the industrialization itself. that industrialization over shadows the peace givers. we do not realize that we have the power to encourage peace, because we are to occupied by our daily lives.

im not saying peace does not exist, nor do i say that peace is not obtainable. what im saying is that there is a light of peace that exists, such as religious places. we, as human beings, still have lessons to learn. only after have we learned those lessons, will we reach the light, where eternal peace resides.

this is one of the essential lessons every single religion in the world tries to teach. we think that religions are different, but in fact, all religions have the SAME root. they get fueled by the SAME set of beliefs. it is only the extremists that molded the difference between religions, by incorporating their extremist interpretations. every religion have those extremists.

i believe that all religions teach the same lessons. they may have a few slight and negligible differences, but the basics are the same.

when i hear people argue about religion, it disgusts me to know that they do not know that they are unnecessarily arguing for the same set of common teachings.

on a side note: if anyone disagrees with me, feel free. it is your opinion, and i will not bother debating with you.

edit: omg. this has got to be the longest post i have ever written..

[Lilydream]

ahahah thank u very much dann for take time to give me an answer...i really appreciate it...but i have to think first about what u write before say something...and then i don't want to debate but just exchange idea....

good luck for ur speech ...

[dann]

^ thank you.

and sorry if i sounded like a bitch, but you cannot imagine how much i hate fighting over religion...

but if you need clarification, ill be more than glad to do so.

[kdotc]

dan..i need to clarify somehting...y r u bay day

[dann]

why you asking if im gay? you envy my superior intellect? dont be jealous!

[kdotc]

i was just wondering..was if one time u dropped the soap in the showers at skool and booom..u turned bay day rite there ahahhaha..i heard gay pppl ain't goin to heaven

[dann]

oh, oh speaking from experience eh? well guess you'll be the only one stuck in hell :/ sucks for you. its nice knowing you.

and stop talking about homosexuality. theres already a thread for that and you know it. go check it out lol

[hiake]

but as for the serious stuff, God came down in the form of an earthly vessel (Jesus). he suffered for all of us and died for all of us, 3 days later he rose. Of all the holy men of the world, its only Jesus who rose and its only Jesus who cant e found in any tomb. for salvation all you have to do is believe Jesus, accept him into your life and have faith in his resurection.

how would you feel if you cut a hand off to save your family but they threw it back in your face (not the hand, but what you did for them). God himself put himself in a position to be tormented to take all our sins. yes we are borne in sin but accepting Jesus and asking forgivness for your sins is all you have to do.

as for those who follow other religions, thats totally up to you, as a christian i will never condemn you for following another religion, i wont consider you lower than anyone else but ill live in hope that you find Jesus one day, thats all i can do.

I wonder why God is said to be omnibenevolent -- if human is not gratituous to His (or Jesus') sacrifice, in other words not follow nor believe in him, he condemn them in eternal hell. And I though the point of sacrifice is the sacrifice, not the expected gratitude -- if one wanted the sacrifice to be repaid with gratitude, one should never sacrifice in the first place. There's a Chinese proverb -- "Know that gratitude may not be repaid"

To me, Jesus' death and resurrection was indeed a miracle, if it did happen. However, the meaning of "taking all human sins in his torment and will forgive human if one is willing to believe Him" is totally unfound -- this significance is totally man-made, not that the Canon is not doubtfully man-made... I just think it's a way to guilt-trip human to believe and follow. But that's just me who's skeptical to the Canon.

i know a few guys that have registered their names in hell; if there is in fact a heaven and hell.

*Laughs* so did I. Just in case there is a hell -- I RSVP'd.

[ab289]

ok i wont go into details, because i have a speech i have to write for tomorrow.. and memorize it.. >_<

this is one of the essential lessons every single religion in the world tries to teach. we think that religions are different, but in fact, all religions have the SAME root. they get fueled by the SAME set of beliefs. it is only the extremists that molded the difference between religions, by incorporating their extremist interpretations. every religion have those extremists.

i believe that all religions teach the same lessons. they may have a few slight and negligible differences, but the basics are the same.

when i hear people argue about religion, it disgusts me to know that they do not know that they are unnecessarily arguing for the same set of common teachings.




Thanks Dann for the speech. Hope you save some memory space for your speech tomorrow.

for the most part, religion teaches humans to be good, etc. that's why i don't think there's any right or wrong religion. Just because you are not of a certain religion or denomination does not makes that person a bad person that will go to hell. I think if there is a heaven and hell; it's not the amount of prayers in one religion or denomination that will determine where you go. I think it's the things you do unto others, the things you do for people, the way you live your everyday life.
Having said that, it is a very sad to see that alot of people and alot of spiritual leaders failed to understand that fact. Maybe you can claim those as cults; but there are very strict followers of Christians that wouldn't even have any relations with you just because you are of different religion or denominations. And it's my personal experience with one church that claims I no longer need my family since I have my new Father (in heaven) and brothers and sisters(church members). I was to severe ties with my family if they don't join the church; supposedly, uncleanse sinners. That may be an isolated case, coz I refuse to believe that's what the Bible teaches. To disown your family. And I'm not criticizing Christians; I was brought up attending Catholic school with morning prayers! The point being, how would you have peace and respect of other religions when there are some religious leaders that believe the only way is through their religion or denominations?

[dann]

^ well once again, thats all about interpretation. many people have been teaching wrong interpretations, hence extremists.

but another fact to consider is that of power. when the europeans first conquered america, they wanted to spread THEIR religion. its all about the hunger for power. much like the crusades.

this further leads back to human nature. human beings are greedy for power. and greediness is the root of survival..

so yea, tough stuff.

[master_g]

hey hiake, i aint got long to write cus i got studying to do ill be quick, every human is destined for hell becuse we are all sinful. u cant change being sinfull because it is inherited from adam and eve, its who we are. for us to be able to come back to God, he came down as a perfect human (Jesus) to be sacrificed, that payed the price for our sins. to accept the free offer of salvation we must accept Jesus, accept him into our life and ask forgivness of our sins so that we can partake in his resurection. remember it is not God who condems us to hell but the sins we live in, sin can not be in God' presence, a sinner standing before God is like you standing on the Sun. if you dont believe in sins or that your born into sin then thats your choice but thats how it is.

God is all loving too but a time will come when all sin will be removed from before him, and if your in sin then u will be removed from him and partake in the punishment that was originally reserved for just Satan and his angels.

though you wont see it like this, God is so loving that he is making a way for you to see this information right now, its not hidden from you, its just a simple choice YOU have to make. you have chances time and time again but your not willing to seek God, as i said before its totally your choice.

you have a problem with religion or the canon then fine, but if you dont have a problem with Jesus himself then ask him to reveal himself in your life.

[countryboy]

Pope John Paul II told an audience at the Vatican that:
"Hell is not a place but a state of mind."
"rather than a place, Hell indicates the state of those who freely
and definitely separate themselves from God."

enough said.

[dann]

hey hiake, i aint got long to write cus i got studying to do ill be quick, every human is destined for hell becuse we are all sinful. u cant change being sinfull because it is inherited from adam and eve, its who we are. for us to be able to come back to God, he came down as a perfect human (Jesus) to be sacrificed, that payed the price for our sins. to accept the free offer of salvation we must accept Jesus, accept him into our life and ask forgivness of our sins so that we can partake in his resurection. remember it is not God who condems us to hell but the sins we live in, sin can not be in God' presence, a sinner standing before God is like you standing on the Sun. if you dont believe in sins or that your born into sin then thats your choice but thats how it is.

God is all loving too but a time will come when all sin will be removed from before him, and if your in sin then u will be removed from him and partake in the punishment that was originally reserved for just Satan and his angels.

though you wont see it like this, God is so loving that he is making a way for you to see this information right now, its not hidden from you, its just a simple choice YOU have to make. you have chances time and time again but your not willing to seek God, as i said before its totally your choice.

you have a problem with religion or the canon then fine, but if you dont have a problem with Jesus himself then ask him to reveal himself in your life.

you wanna know something? did you know that during the crusades, those in charge of christianity had to modify a few parts of the real christinaity in order to convince their soldiers that nothing bad will happen to them?

did you know that during the crusades, religion has totally changed from what it used to be? that was when extremists were born. thus the interpretation is not like what it SHOULD have been. the human being has changed it. and by changing it, it has continued to today.

and another thing. although i am buddhist, i did go to a christian school, and i do NOT recall learning that all men will go to hell. just curious.. how did you ever come up with such a hypothesis?

and we can summarize your post into one word: assimilation.

Pope John Paul II told an audience at the Vatican that:
"Hell is not a place but a state of mind."
"rather than a place, Hell indicates the state of those who freely
and definitely separate themselves from God."

enough said.

well said man well said

[master_g]

Pope John Paul II told an audience at the Vatican that:
"Hell is not a place but a state of mind."
"rather than a place, Hell indicates the state of those who freely
and definitely separate themselves from God."

enough said.

pope John Paul may say one thing but the bible says another. can pope john paul backup what he says with the bible?, I think not. everything i say to you IS from the bible. Jesus warned us about hell many times and made it clear that it is a real place.

christianity and roman catholicism are 2 different things, catholicism has its own teaching, rules and scripture.

you wanna know something? did you know that during the crusades, those in charge of christianity had to modify a few parts of the real christinaity in order to convince their soldiers that nothing bad will happen to them?

did you know that during the crusades, religion has totally changed from what it used to be? that was when extremists were born. thus the interpretation is not like what it SHOULD have been. the human being has changed it. and by changing it, it has continued to today.

and another thing. although i am buddhist, i did go to a christian school, and i do NOT recall learning that all men will go to hell. just curious.. how did you ever come up with such a hypothesis?

and we can summarize your post into one word: assimilation.

to be honest i don’t see what the crusades have to do with what were talking about, they may have claimed to be Christians but they weren’t, what else do they have to do with Christianity. but im aware of them, they may have called themselves Christian but their actions proved otherwise, there reasons for being were they were was obviously not Christian at all. nowhere in the bible does it allow for whatever happened back then but hell is real whether you want to believe it or not.

When you say they modified a few parts of the ‘real’ Christianity. What do you mean by that? They wrote another bible? I can’t find anywhere in the bible were it advocates what they did. Or was it word of mouth teaching?, what were these modifications by the way?

Did u know that extremist existed before the crusades? Did u know they existed before Jesus was on earth?

You said you went to a Christian school which never made you aware of the biblical fact that all those who are not saved through Jesus go to hell. Maybe they never want to burden you with that or maybe you were too young or maybe It wasn’t a very good Christian school. I don’t really know because I wasn’t there. By the way, what did they teach you concerning this topic?

Once again, everything I say can be backed up by the bible.

P.S im not sure what your trying to say but are you saying that the Christianity today is a false Christianity created by the crusaders? and the real Christianity says nothing about HAVING to be saved through Jesus so u can be with him in heaven and escape hell?, im curious. Maybe you can shed some light on what the real Christianity was before the crusades.

Thanks in advance :)

[dann]

here. im not gonna bother explaining, cuz obviously, i cant summarize months and months of reading into one post.

and im not gonna bother getting myself in such ridiculous debates. cuz obviously, i said it before. i will not fight over religion. all i said was not made up, hell, it was not even my opinion. go do some reading, and come back and tell me. you read only one source, the bible. go read more sources to back up your claims, THEN come to me and explain to me why im wrong.

just to clear things up, read my previous posts. what im saying is that all religions are from the same root. the crusades have everything to do with it. it was in the crusades that the majority of the misdirection from christianity and catholicism occured. and that moves onto the fact that the idea of hell was created during that misdirection. in buddhism, there is no hell. in some other religions there is no hell as well. hell is a creation, so when you meant that everybody goes to hell because they are all sinners, i just disagree. thats all.

do you see me go and and tell you that your school is a crap school? do you see me go and tell you that you learned everything wrong? and that you were too young to understand what was taught to you?

and i do admit i might be wrong in some aspects, because I AM NOT AN EXPERT.

i always kept my respect of your beliefs, and i simply INTRODUCED some ideas. i didnt go and slam you down and say that your knowledge is flawed, like you did to me. so if i kept my respect to you, at least do the same.

you have your beliefs, feel free to follow them. i never stopped you from the beginning.

see, this is why i effing HATE debating about religion. this is the EXACT situation that i was trying to avoid. you know what? im not gonna bother fighting with those of you who disrespect other peoples beliefs. im only gonna friendly discuss and exchange ideas (like Lilydream said).

next time, learn to accept other people's beliefs, and stop shooting them down like you shot me.

oh and just so you know, the majority of my knowledge does not come from my school, but from MONTHS of reading and research. you want to shoot down my ideas? go tell that to the authors. theyre the experts.

[master_g]

wow, you seem like a very high strung guy :), every time you read what i type and it offends you, remember, i dont mean to offend you and im not saying anything bad about you. adn please remember, this is a discussion not an argument or some kind of holy war.

do you see me go and and tell you that your school is a crap school? do you see me go and tell you that you learned everything wrong? and that you were too young to understand what was taught to you?

i wasnt implying you went a crap school, a bit of a misunderstanding, u must also take note of the word 'maybe', i guess i put it accross wrong. if u can point out were i said you learned everything wrong ill greatly appretiate it. i was trying to say the teachers never teach you about hell because you were to young, maybe it would scare a young child. why do you take it as an attack on your intellect, as a christian i have no intention in attacking you, thats not my reason for being here. you say i shoot you down... were do i do that, i never mention you religion once.

for you to say that hell was created is to say that everything conserning Jesus is a lie, he died to save us from hell, did he die for nothing or did he not die at all, was that created by the crusaders.

has any of the books youve read presented a version of the bible without mention of having to accept Jesus to avoid hell? and would i be correct in assuming these authors were possibly atheist or against christianity and the reality of hell?

im not sure if your gona take great offence at the next sentnce but here goes.......
please chill out, im not here to offend you, nobody has offended anybody so far, we/I wont make an acception to offend you. please keep this in mind when you read my future posts. God bless :)

[dann]

Read "path of the masters". i cant explain it any better.

as for my behavior from earlier, let me apologize. its been an extremely frustrating day for me, and any small thing can offend. forgive me.

[Lilydream]

OMg ..;) .i think someone should close this thread..because now it turn to a really big war..

but well..this is really interesting what u guys say ...

and then talking about religion is never easy..especially with someone who don't have the same... but it doesn't mean that this is impossible..because if we really look in the depth of all the religion we will see how similar they are .. no matter which religion is: buddhist, christian, islam, etc.. in all of these u have a god and someone in the earth who was send to teach human the way to choose and the way to apply it (rules, beliefs,..)..and this is the same thing for hell and heaven...this is just human fault if ppl keep fighting about religion..because we all see it different and don't interpret it in the same way..but just take time and think about it and u will admit the fact that how similar we are...that's why don't destroy other beliefs like faith because it won't help ... and just talking about it and exchange our point of view is always nice....

u khnow (sorry to say that) but when i read this thread it always make me laugh..because it have a lot of misundertanding between us..and then u guys start to do what history show..fighting!!.. and isn't want we want to avoid?....
but well..i khnow that it's not easy to understand the way that the other person think and follow it ..that's why stop be offensed by everything..and just try to explain why u are disagree...all of us are not stupid and certainly no more a child..that's why it should be more easy for us to talk about that...we all go to school and khnow how to read and to looking for information...u khnow what make ppl different from each other?...this is the fact that we can think by ourselves and khnow to make their own opinion..and this is why we are different from animal..because they khnow to think!!!

Master_g i khnow that u was in a christian school and u want to share ur khnowledges about ur religion but this is true that soemtimes what u say can offend ppl who are not christian..because it seem that u are superior..and i khnow that this is not ur intention..but just u should bbe more carefull about the way u say it...
And Dann..maybe u have a bad day ( i won't ask u then how was ur speech..) but well it's not a reason to be mad and be rude like that...
and about me i khnow that like master _g i need to choose better my word before say something .. then i can avoid misunderstanding...:D

P.S: if i died and go to the hell..i will bring my friend with me too..because then i won't get bored there:D

[dann]

^ yea i realize that and i regret it. like i said, i want to apologize for my behavior.. very shameful on my part.

[master_g]

dann, i fully accept your apology, its cool :), yeah one of the things i find hard is putting my belief accross when people have other beliefs because it can hurt or upset them. it can be a sensitive matter.

[little background]
i never been to a christian school, just a normal one with mixed faiths, im 23 now, raised in a non-christian houshold and i became a christian when i was about 17 without interference from my parents, so it was totally my choice and a desision as i was at an age when i was able to think for myself.

[softbaked007]

Well if it is eternal hell, I don't think there's anything you can do about it except suffer the consequences, you did some bad shit during your life so your screwed I hope stealing candy as a kid doesn't make you end up in eternal hell.

[Knoctur_nal]

with all tht heat make popcorn!

[AC0110]

Well it's kind of a contradiction question... What can you possible do if you are send to enternal hell, I don't think you can actually do anything other then "Burn"?

[fortifiedfaith]

There's nothing i can do if i'm stuck in hell. lol. It's eternity.

[master_g]

lol, i meant how would you feel, obviously you coudnt do anything about it,

[hiake]

@AC: LOL, your rhetoric is funny somehow (I have a feeling I may be of the few who is laughing right now) but yeah, burn.

I still don't think I will consider otherwise if given the chance. Having a faith just to avoid the punishing hell is THE HYPOCRISY I most despise. I would burn to eternity rather than committing it myself.

[xiaojia]

Eternal hell is like living forever.. so I guess I will be working from 9 to 5 everyday.. go home.. surf the net.. visit PA.. sleep.. wake up go to work... forever. >.<

[wind2000]

Hey guys, i was wondering how you would feel if u died and ended up in an eternal hell, i especially would like to hear from atheist and those who dont believe in such a place.

and i hope you ALL make it to heaven were we can all meet each other and chat in person instead of using a forum :)

Dont think that by the time you get to heaven, u'll remember anything on the earthly life.

[master_g]

hiake I still don't think I will consider otherwise if given the chance. Having a faith just to avoid the punishing hell is THE HYPOCRISY I most despise. I would burn to eternity rather than committing it myself.

seek the lord, find the lord and love the lord, thats the only way. you can say what you want but if you dont love God then you will go to hell, so the point you made doesn't stand cus its not possible. ive said it before and ill say it again, lets just wait and see.

you must also understand that all humans DESERVE hell, they dont deserve to stand before the God of love, but remember that God is also a righteous judge, Gods love is being displayed as you read this know, right now you have a chance to turn to him, but will you take that chance........ when judgement comes you will in no way be able to give ANY excuses whatsoever.

After judgement there will be two possible places for you to be, you will either be eternally with God and the rest of saved mankind or separated from God. that place away from God is hell and its bad. u can easily say u would rather burn while your not burning, im sure if someone put a gun to your head and said the only way to walk away would be to do something that is against your nature, im sure you would do it. and that is nothing compared to hell.

[chickenutbread]

whoaa.. okay. so.. uhh. i think it'll be great if everyone just answers the question and yeaaah. i've seen this happen before somewhere else: people ask an innocent question and start dissing each other's beliefs. like i said to hiake (i think) in the "Do you ppl believe in God" thread, we can share our beliefs and if other people see something truly worthwhile in our beliefs, then that's great. i can't use force.

(@master_g): about something you said earlier, i just wanna clarify, accept Jesus in your life as Lord and Savior and umm.. maybe you don't have this intention but i guess your tone (as if you're debating) and the way you express your beliefs is what leads other people to believe that you want to fight them about different beliefs. it sounds like (to me) that you're trying to force Jesus into them. i'm a Christian as well and would like others to see the same truth i see, but not to get to that point by being condemning.

sorry if i come off as wanting to debate and challenge your beliefs but i really want to just understand other beliefs as well. and if i sound offensive or anything like that, feel free to tell me

@dann: is Buddha a god? umm.. yeah. just wondering what your beliefs are or what you're taught? and i'm interested in knowing what you learned while at that Christian school? i'm purely curious. feel free to ignore my request. and i hope that whatever has been said in this thread will not cause you to think of all Christians in one way; sorry if it sounds like i'm implying that you're close-minded, i just don't want any misunderstanding or specific judgments made because of this thread

@hiake: about the "taking all human sins in his torment and will forgive human if one is willing to believe Him". (this is my interpretation of Jesus' death:) He died and already paid for our sins already by doing so. i don't think it's a matter of he'll forgive you only if you believe in Him. to me, this is in relation to the Last Judgment, when Jesus comes back and He'll either say "well done, good and faithful servant" or "get away from me, i never knew you". one can believe that Jesus died on the cross for his/her sins and repent of his/her sins and when that day comes, then God won't hold his/her sins against him/her because he/she repented and ask for forgiveness. (<-- but again, my opinion. i hope i don't sound offensive). and i understand what you mean when you say "Having a faith just to avoid the punishing hell" is hypocratic (idk if there's such a word.. but anyways, you know what i mean). i like to think (again, my interpretation) that my relationship with Jesus comes first and foremost. the fact that i am saved from hell (which i do believe exists) is a good thing, but not my motivation for maintaining a relationship with God.

@ab289: i truly respect other beliefs as it is said, "to each one, his own". i'm glad you see that as an isolated case because really, i think that's absurd as well.. to cut ties off with your family. when i accepted God in my life, i saw it as an added family, God's family (other people in the church). and yes, i like the positive aspect of most beliefs teaching positive values in putting others first, etc but i suppose people get really offensive about personal beliefs because Christianity extends beyond just doing good deeds on earth but also emphasize having a relationship with God

on the subject of "real Christianity": okaaaay, so the belief i have i accept as absolute truth. i interpret "real Christianity" as having a genuine relationship with God, as a friend, as a brother, as a heavenly Father.

[hiake]

^ Yeah, I don't refute the possible existence of god/higher being, as I've said probably a million times on this sub-forum before. I just doubt the humanoid nature of it @_@b

Your judgment is fair in saying atheists are being biasedly skeptical to God (and not receptive to his goodness), well, I see that the other side of the coin would be people with faith seldom doubt their faith (seldom, not never, because there ARE converts no matter how much we don't like it) such ambivolent bias towards religion/God would be a just cause to balance things out, I guess.

However, religion and I started off on the wrong foot (repeatedly, meaning MULTIPLE times) because I was, well, condemned (welcomed?) to burn in hell for eternity due to my skepticism. I guess it's just my natural tendency to react negatively to such willful and determined verdict.

So yeah, I guess I'd rather be truthful to myself and take the chance that I may burn in the hypothetical hell than to hypocritical and "have faith" just because I can avoid such eternal punishment. It's just something against my nature.

In another thread, I was asked if I would do something against my nature when my life is at stake, I of course would say yes, but having faith doesn't look as imminent as having a gun pointed to my temple. So I must say I have to pass (on religion/faith) at this point in time, at the very least.

[chickenutbread]

^ well, i'm glad that you're not hypocritical :) or try not to be. the world needs a lot less hypocrites and a lot more people of integrity.

[master_g]

(@master_g): about something you said earlier, i just wanna clarify, accept Jesus in your life as Lord and Savior and umm.. maybe you don't have this intention but i guess your tone (as if you're debating) and the way you express your beliefs is what leads other people to believe that you want to fight them about different beliefs. it sounds like (to me) that you're trying to force Jesus into them. i'm a Christian as well and would like others to see the same truth i see, but not to get to that point by being condemning.

fair point but for me this is an urgent matter, its also something im not reallly able to tip toe about with, i can sugar coat what i type if i chose to but if i never get the message across then i would have failed at putting my massage across. i don't think i force Jesus on anyone, as i said in another post, i dont think Christianity should be forced on anyone. but one thing i will make clear is the utter fact that Jesus is the only way, thats one matter i wont mince my words with.

ive been using these forums for a little while now, if i never genuinely care i wouldn't be here any more. were all adults here so i dont feel the need to start my posts with the usual "Oh please dont take it wrong, i dont mean to upset you etc etc", if people dont agree they will say and thats fine.

YES!!! it true that i may sound like i am debating but as i said, to me it is a very urgent matter, im also quite sure people must have gotten used to my directness in my posts. but then again your range of emotion is quite limited when typing.

now with that out of the way.....


to me, this is in relation to the Last Judgment, when Jesus comes back and He'll either say "well done, good and faithful servant" or "get away from me, i never knew you". one can believe that Jesus died on the cross for his/her sins and repent of his/her sins and when that day comes, then God won't hold his/her sins against him/her because he/she repented and ask for forgiveness.

doesn't the bible say that the period of grace started when Jesus ascended to heaven and the period of grace ends when Jesus returns? Also remember the GREAT deception that is going to come upon this world, its so great the the bible makes it clear that many Christians will fall away too. also Jesus knows everyone heart, though i realy doubt it could ever work like that, IF it did then i doubt you would be able to develop a love for Jesus above all things in an instant, especially when you know that Jesus has returned to specifically reward the just and the unjust.

[chickenutbread]

^i don't quite understand what you're trying to say? please clarify, thanks.

[taxi01]

if you are already going to hell, then there's nothing else you can do but be punished based on your judgement...

[chickenutbread]

^i see it more like this: we're born of a sinful nature and it is that sinful nature that leads us to hell. repent of your sins, make Jesus Lord and Savior of your life, genuinely make an effort to stop sinning (although it may be a process because even Christians make mistakes sometimes) which God can help you with and when you die (or when Jesus comes back), He will judge you then. what i'm saying is, you have an option called free will to change your path; whether to hell or heaven, it's your decision.

[master_g]

chickennutbred.... what did u want me to clarify, anything in particular?

[BabyRain]

Hey guys, i was wondering how you would feel if u died and ended up in an eternal hell, i especially would like to hear from atheist and those who dont believe in such a place.

and i hope you ALL make it to heaven were we can all meet each other and chat in person instead of using a forum :)

Although I am a Buddhist, I don't believe in Hell and eternal Hell or the 18 stages of Hell :) Think about it; if God is compassionate and ever-loving, why would He want to set you up in Hell for eternity? He wants you to learn and to better yourself. There is no such thing as a vengeful God. I just can't picture a scene where those who sinned will burn in Hell eternally and those in Heaven sit around with the angel playing a harp.


Here's what I believe in the after-life... Reincarnation.
Basically I believe there's a physical body and there's an astral body (which Christians call as soul)... So when we die, our astral body connected to our physical one by a silver cord (similar to the umbilical cord at birth) will be freed when the silver cord is severed.
Our astral bodies will then return to the spirit world; for judgment... and then to decide whether one should be reincarnated; or evolve and move on.


Reincarnation is the act of coming back to this material world from the spirit world. The time sense on a material world and that of the spirit world is quite different. and so one can learn lessons much faster on a material planet than one can in the spirit.
People keep coming to Earth - or to other Earths - in much the same way as one goes to school, where it is intended that one shall learn certain lessons. At the end of the school day (death) one returns home.


As one works through one class, one is promoted to another class until one has learned, in theory, all that the school (this Earth) can teach (life lessons) and then one goes on to a higher grade of school, and from school to a college or university.


In much the same way one comes to this Earth, and then keeps coming back to the Earth to enter different classes. When one has learned that which the Earth can teach, one moves on to a different world, just as the adolescent moves on to a higher class at school.



As to what happened precisely when a person dies; I believe in this --

The astral body will travel to a place to undergo PURGATORY... This is not Hell in the strict sense, it is nothing like the one which is usually portrayed. It is more like a HALL OF MEMORIES in the astral world.


There is a short stay in 'purgatory' where the soul, or Overself, sees the mistakes committed in the life just ended...
This purgatory is not a punishment centre, it is not the local jail and there are no devils who gleefully prod you with red-hot toasting forks. Purgatory is merely a planet where you shed some of your conceit, some of your illusions, and where you face up to the fact that although on Earth you had loads of money, etc., and people were afraid of you, here it is quite different, you did not bring your money with you.


After the said process; then one will either be reincarnated back to Earth; or evolve to the next dimension (graduates). There are nine dimensions existing, we are upon a three-dimensional world. Unfortunately, it's quite impossible to picture a fourth or fifth dimensional world to a person living in the third dimension.
For example, a one-dimensional being could only exist upon a line. People in the fourth dimensional world would view us as what we view a one or two dimensional being. (like a cardboard)... there's a lot more to dimensions; but that would be too much to explain here -^_^

[Knoctur_nal]

ur after life is complicated....

[BabyRain]

I take it you wld rather believe in the notion of eternal hell or heaven then? :P
Actually it's not so complicated if u believe in the concept of school.. hehe

[Knoctur_nal]

heaven..hell...who knows these days..right..or is that how the saying goes..hmph...

[master_g]

babyrain

thanks for reply, youve obviously put alot of time and effort into that. its true some do say how could God put people in hell etc but we got to remember that he gives us chances time and time again. its possible that from today no man ever goes to hell but its not realistic because man would prefer to ignore God and go about his own business. sinful man cant stand in Gods presence, sinful man is so far gone that it took the death of Jesus to save us.

[BabyRain]

@Master_G:
Yes God gives us chances time and time again; and that's why I think that when we don't learn what we came here to learn; we get sent back again to the Earth; just like school kids who don't graduate.
I don't believe in eternal damnation...

There is a God, it doesn't matter what you are going to call that God, the God is of good, and no person is ever called upon to suffer beyond his limits. There is no Hell save that which your guilty conscience will impose upon you (and if you do not have one when you are alive on this Earth; you will have one when you are at the Hall of Memories) that place which is the repository of all knowledge, where every act, either good or bad, ever done by any person, is recorded.

God is not just the Head of a big Corporation, or an old fellow who wears a long beard and carries a lantern on the end of a staff, or sits at a throne and decides which one of us should go to Heaven or Hell. God is a great Force which can be comprehended and understood when one is out of the Earth body; and in the astral world. At present upon the Earth, one is in a three dimensional world and most people could not comprehend God.



^i see it more like this: we're born of a sinful nature and it is that sinful nature that leads us to hell. repent of your sins, make Jesus Lord and Savior of your life, genuinely make an effort to stop sinning (although it may be a process because even Christians make mistakes sometimes) which God can help you with and when you die (or when Jesus comes back), He will judge you then. what i'm saying is, you have an option called free will to change your path; whether to hell or heaven, it's your decision.

What do you term as free will? Is it really FREE WILL when people are promised with Heaven if they embrace Christianity and Hell if not?

IMO, the world lacks religion. So many religions are busy fighting against each other. The Christian, for eg. well it should be that Christianity IS Christianity. Instead, the Church of England and the Church of Rome hail it as a great spiritual victory when they can speak politely to each other... They are all Christians, aren't they? Why do they treat members of any other sect (or religion) as criminals, as people bound for Hell? What does it matter if a person is a Jew, Christian, Buddhist, Hindu or Muslim? We all believe in our own form of religion and all forms of religion should be respected. After all, in the eyes of God, aren't all men equal? and in the eyes of God, all creature are equal whether they be horses or cats, etc. If we are all equal; then there's no really whose religion is better/ the right religion.

With due respect, it seems that the Catholic world is much the same as Communism; the Communists try to inflict their belief on everyone regardless of the other person's wishes. The Catholics also, try to force their religion down another person's throat and they utter direful threats of eternal torment, eternal damnation, and all that rot.

One will die, just the same as the Pope himself. And all that matters at the end of the day is, have you lived your life according to your OWN personal belief? You won't find a fat priest ready to answer for your sins after. He won't take the blame for anything. What you do and what you do not is your own responsibility entirely, and you answer to yourself only, not to an avenging judge who is going to sentence you to an eternity in Hell.

I find it hard to accept when people are promised a place in Heaven as long as they are willing to repent. What if a man has sinned all his life; and 10 days before he's dying, he embraced Christianity and says, "God, I believe in you now. May you save me a place in Heaven. Amen". Because there is such thing in the Bible that said you could be guaranteed a place in Heaven if you believe in Him.

IMO, it's wrong to influence one's free choice of the Path of life and spirituality by promises of sweet time spent eternally in Heaven or eternal damnation to Hell if you don't. To compel a person to take a certain Path against his will is useless, it merely adds to the Karma of the person compelling and does no good to anyone.

[BabyRain]

lol, one misconception i hear alot about hell is the idea that satan will be ruleing in hell. currently the final hell (lake of fire) is not here yet, at the moment we have whats called hades or the place of torment which includes total absence from God. in that place satan does rule, but after judgemnt all demons, fallen angels and Satan will be thrown into the lake of fire along with those who followed after him.

the bible says hell was created for satan and his angels, not humans, but we humans tend to seek other paths besides Gods plan.

in this place Satan will be suffering far far worse than anyone in there, he wont be sitting with a pitch fork making orders. and he wont be available to make special offers with you. i know most of you aint being serious with your answers but i though ill post this extra info anyway. keep em coming.

Without the night, there can be no sunshine; without evil there can be no good, without Satan, there can be no God; without cold there can be no heat. Without extremes, how can there be anything? Just like the Chinese believe in the Yin and Yang... there must be negative or there cannot be positive.
So good old Satan, keep him going for a time because without Satan, there could be no God, without God there could be no Satan because there wouldn't be any humans either.

[master_g]

we believe God is supreme and infinite above satan and anything else. but i understand what your saying.

[BabyRain]

we believe God is supreme and infinite above satan and anything else. but i understand what your saying.

Be cool and stay cool :)

[Knoctur_nal]

religion always seems to bring a few of the most interesting discussions...to say the least..

[BabyRain]

"Do unto others what you would have them do unto you"

that's my religion... :P

[master_g]

read this, it may offend if your Buddhist.

http://www.insightsofgod.com/HTML_TESTIMONIES/former_buddhist.htm

[BabyRain]

read this, it may offend if your Buddhist.

http://www.insightsofgod.com/HTML_TESTIMONIES/former_buddhist.htm

Lol. Indeed. I am not even sure if it's really written by a Buddhist or some hardcore Christian that tries to drive their version of Christianity into others by making fun of others' religion and portaying other religion (unfortunately in this case it is Buddhism) as ignorant and hilariously dumb. What a shame.

I tried hard to be the best monk I could and to follow all the precepts of Buddhism. At one stage I moved to a cemetery where I lived and meditated continually.
What the heck? Move to a cemetery, live and meditate?! What is this guy thinking? I have never heard of Buddhism teachings that say,"One must learn from meditation next to a person's grave". That's like making a blatant joke out of Buddhism teachings, which is why I doubt this article is even genuine.

I tried to attain such inner peace and self-realization that even when a mosquito landed on my arm I would let it bite me instead of brushing it off!
Again the writer tries hard to poke fun at the religion, a very tastelessly bad joke.

The king of hell replied, "Yes, he was a good teacher but he did not believe in Jesus Christ. That's why he is in hell."
So you Christians or maybe should I say the tasteless writer believe in a King of Hell huh? How does he look like? Does he hold a pitch-fork like the Devil himself and sits on a throne; and watching the fire making sure they don't get put out?
Refer above for my post on eternal damnation to Hell and Christianity.

He replied, "This is the one you worship: Gautama [Buddha]." I was very disturbed to see Gautama in hell. I protested, "Gautama had good ethnics and good moral character, why is he suffering in this lake of fire?" The king of hell answered me, "It doesn't matter how good he was. He is in this place because he did not believe in the Eternal God."

This is a complete insult to Buddhism; and definitely I shall not waste any minute reading the stupid senseless article and even wasting my effort in commenting because I believe not only this article is NOT genuine, it is made by a so-called believer in Christianity; whose beliefs are sadly clouded by his own delusions of what his religion should be; and resorted to poking fun and even blatantly insult other religions.

[master_g]

So you Christians or maybe should I say the tasteless writer believe in a King of Hell huh? How does he look like? Does he hold a pitch-fork like the Devil himself and sits on a throne; and watching the fire making sure they don't get put out? Refer above for my post on eternal damnation to Hell and Christianity.

aye this is true, there certainly are rulers in hell, you could say satans very very high ups. whereas the lower levels go about the earth pretending to be departed humans etc. the bible doesnt mention a pitchfork etc, its a stereotype, like the devil is red, and ghosts walk around with bed sheets over their heads.

I am not even sure if it's really written by a Buddhist

at least you are not claiming to be certain. if your willing to take the risk then its up to you.

P.S. If you take a look at that page youll see many examples, that was the only buhddist testimony so the others should be easy to digest.

P.P.S when reading the testimony, i never laugh once, i never see any jokes in it and i hope he is still alive preaching the word. the only joke made was your one about pitch forks and thrones (maybe it was some kind of sarcasm), but i wont hold it against you, maybe you were angry. God bless

[BabyRain]

if your willing to take the risk then its up to you.



Wait, I am sorry, I don't get you..
What risk? I am not even aware that I am taking a risk here. Again, I stress trying to force your religion unto someone by simply promising Heaven and Hell is completely ignorant and unjustified. I am sure even your God (I am so reluctant to use this word; Your God... but in this case I believe that's how you see it) would not advocate such a thing as,"Believe in Me, child... or you'll go to live in Hell with Satan himself".

To imply that Gautama is even in Hell; that shows how ignorant you are, or the person who wrote that silly article. I could probably set up a website and post some articles myself of some Christians going through silly experiences..
"I saw Jesus rotting in Hell" yes Buddhists have this 18 stages of Hell (although I personally don't believe in it)
"which stage?"
"The 18th stage coz he doesn't believe in Buddhism"...

How then, would you feel? Would you believe me if I told you these articles are genuine? Would you say,"Yes I am sorry.. You are probably right. I am taking a risk believing in my religion. I should convert to yours"... LOL. Now do you see the irony here?
Are you trying to imply that concept of eternal damnation to Hell again to me?
lol. Even common sense would tell you it's very lame to imply those who simply believe in Christianity would go to Heaven and those who don't would go to Hell.

Now even if I believe in Christianity, which would you want me to be? Catholic or Protestant? Who will go to Hell and who will go to Heaven?

Christians themselves almost go to war as to which sect is the TRUE sect, lmao. Christians preaching Christianity do not show Christianity to Christians of another sect. Look at the Protestants and the Catholics, you would think they had bought up all the front row seats in Heaven the way they go on!
Catholics seem to think that Protestants are evil people; and the Protestants are quite sure that Catholics are evil people. Most Christians are so frightfully sure that there is NO WAY TO HEAVEN except through the door of their OWN particular little Church. Most of the Christian priests are scared stiff to discuss anything and who can only talk in platitudes or parables. It's easy for a priest, with an absolutely assured income, to prate on to some poor impoverished sufferer about "God will provide". BUt it's NOT so easy when YOU are the poor impoverished sufferer.

A religion is a useful thing for inculcating spiritual discipline provided the religious leaders are NOT fighting among themselves.

If everyone else in the world thinks as you; I am afraid the world come to a huge religion war. Why does one care what religion he is in as long as he does good? Are you trying to tell me that someone like Gautama or the Prophet Muhammad who did nothing but goodness in his Life gets sent to Hell because he is not a Christian; and someone who rapes, kills, robs practically sinned every minute of his life until his last breath, where he said, "Jesus Christ, Lord, I believe in you. Please save my soul, Amen" and God materializes before him and tells Satan, "This one is mine"???
Does that even make sense? Common sense or otherwise. The answer is obviously NO it doesn't.
If your notion of God is sadly clouded by some misinterpreted and mistranslated lines in the Bible; then I am sorry.

God is a God of Kindness, a God of Compassion. No one is ever condemned, no one is ever sentenced to eternal damnation, there are no such things as devils who jump up and down on one and plunge pitch forks into one's shuddering body. That is all a FIGMENT in the imagination of crazed priests who tried to gain dominance over the bodies and souls of those who knew no better in the olden days. There is only hope and knowlege that if one works for it, one can atone for any crime, no matter how bad that crime seems to have been. No one is ever 'extinguished' or abandoned by God.
Christians always say, "God loves us". God is a kind and understanding God. Why should we then fear someone who loves us? Do you fear a really kind and understanding father? If I am not a Christian, am I supposed to face some wrathful God who will stick a hay-fork into some part of me and toss me straight down to old Satan who will have his branding irons all ready???

Are you aware of the Tibetan Book of Dead? It was not written in English, it was just translated to English by some creepish Christians who altered things a bit to make it tie in with the Christian belief of hellfire and damnation. That is all a misconception fostered by priests to bolster up their own power in much the same way as some misguided parents frighten their children by threatening to call a policeman if they don't behave.

Do you even know the history of your religion? I asked you two questions on your Bible in the other post.. and waiting for your answers, if you have any. :)

[dann]

oh my god.. people write essays in here O.O

YOU ALL GET ZERO MARKS -tongue2

[wind2000]

^ More like the theological debate of the century.

[dann]

^ lol yea its all theological considering there IS no proof to be used as evidence to support their claims..


HINT: just post up some factual evidence, and you could EASILY win your debate :P

[master_g]

Hi babyrain

Even common sense would tell you it's very lame to imply those who simply believe in Christianity would go to Heaven and those who don't would go to Hell.

those who Jesus knows will go to heaven, and those he doesn't know will go to hell.

Many will tell me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in your
name, in your name cast out demons, and in your name do many mighty
works?' Then I will tell them, 'I never knew you. Depart from
me, you who work iniquity.'

and someone who rapes, kills, robs practically sinned every minute of his life until his last breath, where he said, "Jesus Christ, Lord, I believe in you. Please save my soul, Amen"

one of the BIGGEST misconceptions is the thought that an evil man can say the above with his last breath and be saved. i feel sorry for those who try. do you think God can be fooled?

Do you even know the history of your religion? I asked you two questions on your Bible in the other post.. and waiting for your answers, if you have any

ok ok, giv us a chance, are u talking about the questions "do u think adam is first human" and "what do i think of the bible" ?, if so, i did answer them.

i know nothing of the Tibetan Book of Dead, do you call a man a Christian because he says he is. its a shame there is division in the church, there are some catholic's that are truly saved and many that are not, there are many protestants that are truly saved and many that are not. The bible makes it clear that the road to damnation is broad and the way to God is narrow. im sorry if i sound like an illogical idiot, tbh many people thought the same of Jesus when he walked the earth too, so in a way ill consider it an honour.

[nyckeion]

i always wondendered about hell....did lucifer just claim it or did god give him that territory?

[hiake]

I thought Lucifer is a condemned angel? But whatever.

@master_g: Well, we can never really know whether one is religious and faithful to the lifestyle of the religion now can we? Thus we just take the other's word for it. And really, I guess if hell exists then it is getting VERY crowded down there...

Another question: to burn the so-called witches, it is murder right? So do those mob get to go to heaven? Personally I don't think any of those mobs felt bad (or sinful) to have killed because conveniently the ones they killed are the evil ones. So they won't repent (there's nothing to repent for if it is righteous)... and so... Hell?

Or does God got a special place for them since they are so devotedly blind and such a good herd?

[master_g]

hehe, hell is more technical than you think, ill give it a go.

Hell is a realm created for satan and his angels "Originally", because humans walk and die in sin, even after Gods greatest sacrifce, men will suffer in that hell too. Satan and demons can go to hell and leave as they please, they have not yet been bound but some fallen angels have been bound in chains because of what they did in the book of genesis.

unfortunately, when unsaved humans die, they are sent to hell, and in hell they are open to torments by demons untll judgement comes. when Jesus returns Satan will be bound in hell making him and his fallen angels actual residents of that place.

when Satan is loosed from hell one last time he will be defeated and tossed into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the real deal, current hell is nothing in comparison to what's going to come. after that, hell itself along with its people will be tossed into the lake of fire, at this point Satan, his angels and everyone else will suffer.

people tend to confuse hell and the lake of fire, but eventually they will become one.

[nyckeion]

well in that same sense hwo about hte holy war then in the war so many people have died fighting for the cause of religion so according to that shouldnt they be equal to your mob hiake?

[BabyRain]

unfortunately, when unsaved humans die, they are sent to hell, and in hell they are open to torments by demons untll judgement comes. when Jesus returns Satan will be bound in hell making him and his fallen angels actual residents of that place.

when Satan is loosed from hell one last time he will be defeated and tossed into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the real deal, current hell is nothing in comparison to what's going to come. after that, hell itself along with its people will be tossed into the lake of fire, at this point Satan, his angels and everyone else will suffer.

people tend to confuse hell and the lake of fire, but eventually they will become one.

So what happens when judgment comes and after being judged?

If Satan is defeated; does that mean evil cease to exist?
What happens to those who get tossed into the lake of fire? Do they burn eternally? How about those in Heaven? What happens to them after the bad guys are defeated 'one last time'?

[master_g]

Another question: to burn the so-called witches, it is murder right? So do those mob get to go to heaven?

no way, they committed the sin of murder, they will suffer the same final fate as the witch. God could have brought that witch to him, but instead, that mob cut the witches life short. paul is a good example of this, he killed many Christians and he thought he was doing it for God, but God gave him a revelation as shown in the bible and he became one of the most dedicated Christians this world has seen. unfortunately that mob never learn from pauls mistake and they will pay the price.

Or does God got a special place for them

certainly not

if hell exists then it is getting VERY crowded down there

hell is more than enough to hold who it holds, it wont be crowded at all.

Well, we can never really know whether one is religious and faithful to the lifestyle of the religion now can we?

depends on how well you know them and how often you see them but yeah its true. a poll was done in America and it showed that most Christians have a lifestyle no different than non Christians. so are these people really Christians (living by Jesus' example) of course not.

[master_g]

If Satan is defeated; does that mean evil cease to exist?

yes, evil will cease to exist, which was caused by pride in the first place.


What happens to those who get tossed into the lake of fire? Do they burn eternally?

unfortunately for them, yes.

How about those in Heaven? What happens to them after the bad guys are defeated 'one last time'?

they will live with God for eternity, after this is over we will give no thought to the old world.

[wind2000]

I thought Lucifer is a condemned angel? But whatever.

@master_g: Well, we can never really know whether one is religious and faithful to the lifestyle of the religion now can we? Thus we just take the other's word for it. And really, I guess if hell exists then it is getting VERY crowded down there...

Another question: to burn the so-called witches, it is murder right? So do those mob get to go to heaven? Personally I don't think any of those mobs felt bad (or sinful) to have killed because conveniently the ones they killed are the evil ones. So they won't repent (there's nothing to repent for if it is righteous)... and so... Hell?

Or does God got a special place for them since they are so devotedly blind and such a good herd?

Eventually the people who commited those atrocities will burn in hell if they dont repent from their murderous acts.

[hiake]

So okay, it is now where it is getting confusing: so if they repent, they would go to heaven? Wow, let me rephrase the who "bad guy going religious at the last breath" question. What if someone repent EVERY SINGLE TIME he/she commit any crime/sin (rinse and repeat)???

And yeah, the road to the so-called God is really narrow indeed. You need to think he really exist, then you need to live sin-free or repent on everything you've done.

[master_g]

So okay, it is now where it is getting confusing: so if they repent, they would go to heaven? Wow, let me rephrase the who "bad guy going religious at the last breath" question. What if someone repent EVERY SINGLE TIME he/she commit any crime/sin (rinse and repeat)???

And yeah, the road to the so-called God is really narrow indeed. You need to think he really exist, then you need to live sin-free or repent on everything you've done.

forgiveness doesnt work like that, if your truly sorry from your heart and you 'WILL' abstain from this sin then it will be forgiven, if not then it wont be forgiven. it like Christians who smoke and ask for forgiveness, its impossible because you intend in smoking again.

anyone can say forgive me, but weather it comes from the heart is another matter. if someone challenged you to go upto a person you hated and tell them you loved them for 1 billion pounds im sure you would do it. BUT no matter how much you tried, it wouldn't be Sincere would it. its like this too when you ask jesus into your heart and when you ask forgivness.

i know God exists because i saw the Lord Jesus with my own eyes when i was a child, before i knew who or what God was, before i knew about any religion and the stuff i saw. weather you believe or not it down to you but i guess i have the advantage of KNOWING.

[wind2000]

So okay, it is now where it is getting confusing: so if they repent, they would go to heaven? Wow, let me rephrase the who "bad guy going religious at the last breath" question. What if someone repent EVERY SINGLE TIME he/she commit any crime/sin (rinse and repeat)???

And yeah, the road to the so-called God is really narrow indeed. You need to think he really exist, then you need to live sin-free or repent on everything you've done.

Master G pretty much summed it up regarding repentance. We dont need to think He exists because we know that He does. No one can live sin free but through His power, we can attempt to focus on what He wants us to be.

[hiake]

@master_g: I am sorry, I am in no shortage of money that I put my dignity for sale, not for 1 bil pounds or any number of pounds. I am not the forgive and forget type, so no amount of money would change that. It's like you asking me whether I would believe in God if I end up in the hypothetical hell, the answer is no, because it is against my nature (or nature in general) to "go back to pre-judgement time and start believing in God"

Hang on, is this question an attempt in evading other questions? Maybe I am thinking too much. Anyways.

Again, it all boils down to whether you THINK you have seen God or it's just a illusion by some satanic demons. I guess if I don't have visions or appatritions to begin with, I wouldn't have to worry about "believing" in the wrong thing.

@wind: Somehow everyone in the Christian faith have apparition =_=b How can one believe in a faith based heavily on anecdotal visions is totally beyond me.

[master_g]

I am in no shortage of money that I put my dignity for sale

it was a general example to show the point i was making.

s this question an attempt in evading other questions?

correct me if im wrong but ive answered EVERY question put my way.

it all boils down to whether you THINK you have seen God or it's just a illusion

i am 110% sure of what i saw as it happened for a reason and the reason was made clear. so for me its not a case of "THINK" im more on the lines of being "SURE". but then again, solid proof would be explained away too eh,

It's like you asking me whether I would believe in God if I end up in the hypothetical hell, the answer is no

if you was judged by God and sentenced to hell, you still wouldn't believe in him?, then again i could imagine people in hell saying to themselves "this is not happening, it must be my brain waves" etc

Edit: I am not the forgive and forget type

huh, what type of person are you then?

[wind2000]

@ hiake Not every Christians have seen apparitions. Its more on the sense that we have this "warm feeling" of being cared. It all comes down to opening your heart and give it a try. Dont let logic interfere because once you start thinking, you are already disproving that He exists. -^_^

[BabyRain]

Well I am a Buddhist and I get this 'warm feeling' too that someone's watching over me. So what gives?

[hiake]

@master_g: I don't know what kind of person I am, but I am quite sure I don't do forgive and forget. And yeah, hell. Torture is torture, but at least I can say I lived my life in free will instead of submitting to threats.

@wind: as BR says in the following post, how can you be certain that such "warm feelings" is attributed to the Christian God?

[wind2000]

@ br: is it really a warm feeling at every moment of the day? or merely just feel good for a while?

[dann]

i have a solution.



we wait until we all pass away, and we will know the answer to all :D

[hiake]

And then starting to question to nature of the "warm feeling" of others =_=b

@dann: We wanted to know where we are heading before we get there... I think. The discussion will never lead anywhere but at least I hope to learn something new (which thusfar hadn't)

[dann]

^ but why would you want to learn new things even tho you know it may be completely flawed?

no one in this forum knows the answer to the afterlife... NO one.... so why learn things that might not be true?

[wind2000]

^ but why would you want to learn new things even tho you know it may be completely flawed?

no one in this forum knows the answer to the afterlife... NO one.... so why learn things that might not be true?

best would be each to its own and only time will tell.

[master_g]

I hope to learn something new (which thusfar hadn't)

you really hope to learn something new, do you think this is possible considering your demands of proof?

[dann]

you really hope to learn something new, do you think this is possible considering your demands of proof?

learning something new means learning TRUE information. without proofs to provide as evidence (to show it is TRUE), you might as well learn information from a fish for all its worth..

[master_g]

This is were spiritualism differs from science.

[wind2000]

@ dann Irony of this whole discussion is: What is true since everyone has their opinions. -rolleyes

[master_g]

check this site out

http://www.insightsofgod.com/

[dann]

@ dann Irony of this whole discussion is: What is true since everyone has their opinions. -rolleyes

not really... considering im in a research major

opinions = claims.
claims + evidence = more likely consistent.

opinions - proof = garbage..

its like saying OMGWTF CHICKENS AND OSTRICHES CAN FLY!

proof to this statement would be a video of a chicken flying like an eagle or something...
OR proof that chicken wings have the surfaces needed to generate lifts for the chicken to fly (more scientific)

[dann]

check this site out

http://www.insightsofgod.com/

but these are all mostly testimonies and one time cases.... there isnt any scientific experimentation done to recreate the environment to prove its desired effect...

im not saying science can solve everything, but we as human beings are accustomed to having proofs to show that it is plausible, as demonstrated throughout history...

[master_g]

yeah and that's our downfall. people want proof before seeking God instead of seeking God and seeing all the proof they want. (from Christian perspective)

i advise you make use of that website, but its up to you ofcourse,

[dann]

ill make use of it alright. but i will just not have any answers to it.

tell me master g. i have a question.

you seem like you believe in God greatly.. which i totally respect, because i too do believe in A God.

but how are you sure that a God really exist? i dont doubt the fact that a God may or may not exist, but how are YOU sure that God is real?

im curious to find YOUR answer to it, and not anyone elses..



because, as others said, God may be an invention to help humans have values to follow, to guide humans. Im not saying i believe that, but im curious HOW people are certain God (whether they be God, Alah, Buddhist God, or any other Gods) exists

[Arctic_fire]

never thought about that..

but I think, I would've accept it, cant do nothing to change it :(

[wind2000]

@ dann. which goes back to who here has claims + evidence?????

[SugaCutie0]

Soo many opinions.. I personally do not believe in "Hell", period.

[dann]

see what artic_fire said partially supports the claim that God may be a creation. it may not be true, but it is still evidence nonetheless.

many others may be like Artic_fire, and are willing to accept a God, because they were told to.. perhaps, during the past, people just accept God because they were told he is true..

and to prove that claim, people in the past have no privileges to education, they believe in what they are told..

im not saying i dont believe in God, im just trying to show the importance of claim and evidence, so this debate can actually go somewhere...

@wind2000: no one does when it comes to religion lol

@ sugacutie0: why?

[hiake]

you really hope to learn something new, do you think this is possible considering your demands of proof?

learning something new means learning TRUE information. without proofs to provide as evidence (to show it is TRUE), you might as well learn information from a fish for all its worth..

This is were spiritualism differs from science.

It is very interesting that you think asking for proof equates not ready to learn something new. Of course it is where religion differs from science. One thing is pulled out from sheer faith and the other is a world view of causes and consequences. I am not saying something is not real because it cannot be explained, it is just that the "requirement" of believing in something for the sake of believing is out of my league. And yeah, the fact that a narrative text is held as holy? I just wonder where THAT come from.

yeah and that's our downfall. people want proof before seeking God instead of seeking God and seeing all the proof they want. (from Christian perspective)

i advise you make use of that website, but its up to you ofcourse,

Again, anecdotal pseudo-evidence does not mean zip. Somehow it is so easy to convince others of fictions when it has the "religion visions" tag.

[dann]

proof equates not ready to learn something new?

i uhhhhh dont understand :D

im gonna try and not implicate myself any further in this religious debate :P

not really my cup of tea ;)


BBUTTTTTT it gets me good post counts -lol

[hiake]

^ Yeah, now you've discovered my secret dann :P

[dann]

^ :O THATS HOW YOU GOT + 3K POSTS?!?!?!

cheaterrrrrr :P

i did it when i tried to reach 1k XD

[SugaCutie0]

@dann: I don't, because I don't believe in "Hell" as being a "fiery place of torment" for evildoers. I believe that the original term translated into "Hell" from the Hebrew: She'ohl / Greek Septuagint: Hai'des ultimately means "the abode of the dead" or "mankind's common grave". If you are an actually Bible student and have on hand multiple Bible translations, King James to be more precise, in the book of Acts (2:25-27), there is a reference to a prophecy of Jesus, originally recorded in Psalms. There, Jesus is termed as the "Holy One" and actually goes on to bring out that Jesus himself was in "Hell", momentarily. (For 3 days, of course, then after wards he was risen.) So, to me, using only the example of Jesus' death, it's truly unreasonable to think that God would have his only-begotten son, the first born of all creation, the one that was always faultless and upright, to be suffering in "Hell". Furthermore, a God that is the personification of love (1John 4:8) would never torment people for all eternity, that is a bold contradiction of the type of person God is and I think these teachings is exactly why many have a distorted view of God and do not love HIM. Why and how could anyone love a person that would punish people by mercilessly tormenting them by searing their flesh repeatedly for all eternity?? I know I wouldn't, but then I firmly believe from the scriptures that such teaching is not true, but is a man-made doctrine.

[BabyRain]

@Hiake: besides how do we even know the website is genuinely about people who have had these 'visions'? I could probably set up sth like that myself. Post some pictures; invent some stories.
So Master_G are you sayin u based ur beliefs on 'proofs' by reading those so-called experiences from a website?
Then it comes to the question: Genuine or fake?
How do you know other websites saying their religion is The truth and posting some experiences; how do you know those are fake?

[dann]

@dann: I don't, because I don't believe in "Hell" as being a "fiery place of torment" for evildoers. I believe that the original term translated into "Hell" from the Hebrew: She'ohl / Greek Septuagint: Hai'des ultimately means "the abode of the dead" or "mankind's common grave". If you are an actually Bible student and have on hand multiple Bible translations, King James to be more precise, in the book of Acts (2:25-27), there is a reference to a prophecy of Jesus, originally recorded in Psalms. There, Jesus is termed as the "Holy One" and actually goes on to bring out that Jesus himself was in "Hell", momentarily. (For 3 days, of course, then after wards he was risen.) So, to me, using only the example of Jesus' death, it's truly unreasonable to think that God would have his only-begotten son, the first born of all creation, the one that was always faultless and upright, to be suffering in "Hell". Furthermore, a God that is the personification of love (1John 4:8) would never torment people for all eternity, that is a bold contradiction of the type of person God is and I think these teachings is exactly why many have a distorted view of God and do not love HIM. Why and how could anyone love a person that would punish people by mercilessly tormenting them by searing their flesh repeatedly for all eternity?? I know I wouldn't, but then I firmly believe from the scriptures that such teaching is not true, but is a man-made doctrine.

now THAT is claim + evidence :D

thats all i needed to read ;) thanks!

[BabyRain]

So, to me, using only the example of Jesus' death, it's truly unreasonable to think that God would have his only-begotten son, the first born of all creation, the one that was always faultless and upright, to be suffering in "Hell". Furthermore, a God that is the personification of love (1John 4:8) would never torment people for all eternity, that is a bold contradiction of the type of person God is and I think these teachings is exactly why many have a distorted view of God and do not love HIM. Why and how could anyone love a person that would punish people by mercilessly tormenting them by searing their flesh repeatedly for all eternity?? I know I wouldn't, but then I firmly believe from the scriptures that such teaching is not true, but is a man-made doctrine.

Exactly. And this man-made doctrine of eternal damnation(most likely from the Churches) is what made some Christians look bad when they are preaching it to the rest of us.

@Dann: Claim yes.. Evidence? I don't think so. Only references.

[dann]

Exactly. And this man-made doctrine of eternal damnation(most likely from the Churches) is what made some Christians look bad when they are preaching it to the rest of us.

@Dann: Claim yes.. Evidence? I don't think so. Only references.

reference =/= evidence?

not according to my prof :/

[hiake]

^@dann: Yeah, that's my 3k right there, but that's OT right now :P

reference is not evidence unless it is proven to be correct =_=b just because you made someone say "The earth is flat" and reference such person does not make such saying true. So it's just reference, not evidence.

@sugar: I guess another take on that reference would be that only sinners who don't repent (those supposingly end up in hell) really DIES while the non-sinner-believers will have something like an ascension to heaven...

@BR: Yeah, so I guess I can retire from this section :P Got a few pioneer here ;)

[BabyRain]

Evidence is based on sth which is known to be true; as FACTS.
But what she gave are citations of the Bible; and that we already discussed in the other thread.

[BabyRain]

@Hiake : No!! We need u!!

[dann]

^ true say.... but i really cant argue considering i supported it in the other thread, and i cant argue my prof now can i? -tongue2

DILEMMAAAAAAAAA >_< -lol

[SugaCutie0]

^ lol @dann: you're welcome.

[master_g]

but how are you sure that a God really exist? i dont doubt the fact that a God may or may not exist, but how are YOU sure that God is real?

im curious to find YOUR answer to it, and not anyone elses..

because of a experience i had when i was young, before i knew who or what God was and before i knew about religion. i spoke about this in this thread or another, i cant keep track of them any more. That experience is my personal proof. i never actually come to God till after secondary school, so even though i knew God existed, i still wasted alot of time with worldly stuff. as i matured i was able to see what was important to me. So basically, i dont believe in God because i was raised a Christian, (i wasnt raised in a Christian household) or cus i was told i must believe in God.

[dann]

^ i completely understand. ive had a similar experience myself, altho not God directly, but rather my family whove passed away..

but i cant explain my experiences to anyone else, knowing they would not understand without actual fact to show that it really did happen, and not just some random coincidence or made up stuff... do you see what i mean?

[master_g]

yeah i understand what your saying, i tend to keep it to myself, besides 1 family member, those who read about it on here are the only ones who know.

[chickenutbread]

doesn't the bible say that the period of grace started when Jesus ascended to heaven and the period of grace ends when Jesus returns? Also remember the GREAT deception that is going to come upon this world, its so great the the bible makes it clear that many Christians will fall away too. also Jesus knows everyone heart, though i realy doubt it could ever work like that, IF it did then i doubt you would be able to develop a love for Jesus above all things in an instant, especially when you know that Jesus has returned to specifically reward the just and the unjust.

i just didn't understand the entire part where you talked about the grace period Jesus came down and gave us or something like that.

[Knoctur_nal]

man..i wouldnt mind chillin in the he double l...i mean...be all bad ass n shit....

[dann]

badass... try being badass while you got satan all over your ass LOL

hahaha its true!! hes gonna make you work some shit! -lol

i play haha

[Knoctur_nal]

whas that saying..reign in hell or serve in heaven....

[fearless_fx]

lol knoc, ur not gonna be the most badass down there. u will haveta contend with serial killers, rapists, all that crowd... definitely not a place to be droppin the soap